Justine: After Death, You're Still Longing?

Yet again, the "criticism of the week" failed to bring insights that I didn't have before. The notion that the theme is "[the] unfilled longing... part of human condition, common to all and inescapable," (152) shown through "Fitzgerald's lyrics imagery in... three ways...: (1) as nostalgia for a lost past; (2) as dreams of future fulfillment; and (3) as vague, undefined longing that has no specific goal" (152) is nothing new. It's obvious that all the characters are unsatisfied with there lives in some way. It is also obvious that even though Gatsby dies, he never stopped longing for Daisy. But that was while he was still alive. When you're dead, you're not longing for anyone anymore. You're dead. That's it. The end. Worm food.
Personally, I prefer using New Criticism. I know according to Lois Tyson, Psychoanalytical Criticism is the most approachable, but I don't find that true. Because we have used the four elements throughout our high school English classes it seems more relevant to start with New Criticism.
The only "critique" I have for this specific use on Gatsby is found on page 162: "... like the lovers carved on the Grecian urn in Keat's famous Ode: 'Bold, Lover, never, never canst thou kiss, / Though winning near the goal--yet, do not grieve; / She cannot fade, though thou hast no thy bliss, / For ever wilt thou love, and she be fair!'
I'm sorry, but what? I understand that this shows unfulfilled longing, but I think it hinders Tyson's point. Earlier in the reading, Tyson mentions that Keats is Fitzgerald's favorite poet, however this quotation does not belong in this essay. The point of this section is to show the images of unfulfilled longing in Gatsby, not in this Ode.
In some eyes, this Ode could help, not hinder. In what ways does it hinder or help?

Gatsby on VPR!

Hi guys,

Hope you've had a great break. While I was driving home from grocery shopping tonight, I was listening to the NPR show Studio 360, and it was all about The Great Gatsby! There were many different authors and artists on the show, talking about how the book influenced them. There was also a segment on Gatz, the Broadway show that Justine posted about. The link to the Studio 360 website is here: http://beta.studio360.org/2010/nov/25/

My favorite quotation, from author Jonathan Franzen (who wrote The Corrections, an amazing book that I highly recommend): "In 50,000 words, he tells you the central fable of America...and yet you feel like you are eating whipped cream." :)

See you tomorrow!

Christie

Feminism (Phineas)

The Sexism in "The Great Gatsby" was fairly clear to me, atleast in some parts of the book, when I read it through the first time. The scene in which this was most obvious was when Tom and Gatsby argue over who Daisy loves, giving her very little say in the matter. In my mind, I always saw Tom as the more sexist character in the book, since he is the "evil" character, and one of the primary antagonists, however, it is clear that Gatsby is acting just as sexist as Tom.

One thing that I didn't notice that Tyson pointed out, is how progressive most of the females in the book are, what with Jordan being an athlete (a career mostly reserved for men), women going to parties alone, and generally indulging in partying just as much as the men, but the "party girl" lifestyle isn't necessarily shown in a good light.

That was really the only thing in The Great Gatsby that I didn't notice before reading Tyson's view on this, so it is fairly safe to say that a lot of what she said was either redundant, or pointing out the obvious. Much of the sexism or examples of feminism in TGG is obvious when read casually, or without any "lens" at all.

Feminism In the 20s (Josh)

After reading ""...and next they'll throw everything overboard...": a feminist reading of The Great Gatsby""my view of women and how they are portrayed in the novel was actually somewhat changed. Growing up in the 21st century I saw what we would consider today as the the extremes of patriarchy in the novel as quite the setback compared to the modern day, but when read in context they were actually a step forward: the parties at Gatsby's with single women by themselves, the solo driving trips, Jordan's professional sports status, all were quite progressive for the time. I never viewed the increasing independence of women in the novel as any exciting because it still seemed like quite the oppressive system, but Fitzgerald illustrates how women got increasing freedom during this time and how it affected society as a whole which at the time was still deeply patriarchal.

Tom's "double standard for women" is also something tackled in the piece; I agree that it stems from his deep belief in a patriarchal and how it is necessary for women to conform to gender roles in order for it to continue, much like his belief that whites are the superior race and that other races most be kept down for the white man to strive. This point made me realize how examples of deep set and out dated beliefs such as sexism and racism meet the 20th century through out the The Great Gatsby. Fitzgerald is commenting in the great change in the 2os and there could be no change greater than the beginnings of the feminist movement in the US and the tearing down of the patriarchal establishment.

"We know. we know. we know. I guess so. maybe. we know. Personal life?" [Milo]

Lois Tyson, in this chapter, has hit a bit of writer's block, in my opinion. From start to finish she's just making labels and naming situations that were starkly obvious from the beginning. Sure, Tyson says that when Tom breaks Myrtle's nose as punishment for talking to him, it's patriarchy, however, you can already guess that it's some due to the fact that he broke her nose because she was talking back, and he "punished" her. I don't know about you, but I didn't need to read Tyson's complaining to understand that it was sexist.
However, some of Tyson's motives for ranting are shown near the end of the chapter, She explains some situations where she was harassed of being a woman by people who had considerable power over her.

The Females are Escaping! (Christian)

In reading this chapter, there was one main theme throughout. She kept talking about the New Women, and if my understanding serves me right, The Great Gatsby is arguing that the New Women is actually a bad shift towards women, and they need to continue to be contained. For example, "they were never quite the same ones in physical person, but they were so identical one with another that it inevitably seemed they had been here before." This I felt was both a push and a pull for both sides. It was beginning to show the removal of the "old women", who were much more proper, and all looked roughly the same. This part begins to also demonstrate how that even with this wave of the New Women, they are still suppressed into a social class, and still look roughly the same. In the end, women are still trying to rise up, but they are also still heavily repressed.

Christian

Gatsby feminist post - Eliot

When reading The Great Gatsby and applying a feminist lens to it the dynamic between men and women takes on a new meaning deeper than the easily visible one. One of the scenes from Gatsby, which a feminist lens can be applied most effectively to, is when Gatsby, Tom, and Daisy are together conversing. ‘I want to know what Mr. Gatsby has to tell me.’

‘Your wife doesn’t love you,’ said Gatsby. ‘She’s never loved you. She loves me.’

‘You must be crazy!’ exclaimed Tom automatically. Gatsby sprang to his feet, vivid with excitement. ‘She never loved you, do you hear?’ he cried. ‘She only

married you because I was poor and she was tired of waiting for me. It was a terrible mistake, but in her heart she never loved any one except me!’

At this point Jordan and I tried to go but Tom and Gats- by insisted with competitive firmness that we remain—as though neither of them had anything to conceal and it would be a privilege to partake vicariously of their emotions. ‘Sit down Daisy.” (P-139-140)

This is a clear example of a patriarchal society. The men speak for daisy and command her without thought of her own will or opinions.

An example of stereotypical gender rolls and them being assigned is found in the books stated expectations of women.

“She was incurably dishonest. She wasn’t able to endure being at a disadvantage, and given this unwillingness I sup- pose she had begun dealing in subterfuges when she was very young in order to keep that cool, insolent smile turned to the world and yet satisfy the demands of her hard jaunty body.

It made no difference to me. Dishonesty in a woman is a thing you never blame deeply—“(P.64)

This obviously states that women will behave differently from men simply because they are women.

A third passage which a feminist lens might be applied to deals with social expectations again.

When the ‘Jazz History of the World’ was over girls were putting their heads on men’s shoulders in a puppyish, convivial way, girls were swooning backward playfully into men’s arms, even into groups knowing that some one would arrest their falls—but no one swooned backward on Gatsby and no French bob touched Gatsby’s shoulder and no singing quartets were formed with Gatsby’s head for one link. (P.55)

In this passage women play the stereotypical ‘fall into the man’s arms’ role.

"Bitch" (Tim)

While reading Tyson's "Next they'll throw everything overboard... " I realized how I can subliminally view of female characters as "bitches" solely for there aggressiveness, or their defiance of the paternal social structure. Fitzgerald uses his female characters to paint a pretty shady picture of the "New" woman. She is shallow (cheating, lying, blaming), irresponsible, and spoiled. I agree with Tyson when she says that the women who attend Gatsby's parties are "narcissistic attention-seekers in various stages of drunken hysteria" (page 123). Paying close attention to the women of the story reveals that it does not really empower women to be their own woman. In fact, it shows that when women try to be independent, they only make a fool of themselves: Dancing alone on the dance-floor, fighting, getting so drunk they must be carried out of the party, ect. To put it bluntly, it makes women seem to simple to be able to function well in the world of men. It changes my idea of Gatsby being a forward-looking view of society, that promotes equality amongst classes and genders, to one that presents a pretty awful view of women. What is the point of showing women in such a bad light? Is Fitzgerald trying to warn us about the dangers of the free woman? Or his he being ironic, and showing through sarcasm the pettiness of how we reduce women to being self absorbed bitches?

All as One (Lex)

By looking at F. Scott Fitzgerald's 'The Great Gatsby' through a feminist lens I have learned that the women in this novel are generalized into the role of wild beings who need to be controlled. This has hurt my view of the book for two reasons; first, because it brings to light the stubborn and uniform views of women as one group, rather than as individual people; and second, because it promotes male dominance and patriarchy. To start, Tyson argues that all of the "female characters are... versions of the New Woman" (122), which illustrates how Fitzgerald made each and every woman in his novel alike. This suggests that women do not matter as individuals, but rather as a part of society, confined to their gender roles. Tyson continues to state that said female characters are "portrayed as clones" (122), which further illustrates the lack of diversity within the role and status of a woman. Next, Tyson argues that these 'clones' are all "of a single, negative character type" (122), which shows how every woman in The Great Gatsby is portrayed as either "insincere" (122), "horrible" (123), or "narcissistic" (123). As Nick Carraway said, "dishonesty in a woman is a thing you never blame deeply" (63). This is because all women are the same, so if you blame one, you are blaming the entire lot of them, and how can you coexist with an entire sex of people who you dislike for lying or cheating? Finally, both Tyson and Fitzgerald suggest that the solution to this dilemma of our world of uniformly awful women is that the men take care of them. This can be seen at one of Gatsby's parties when two women are having a fight and their husbands break them up by "lift(ing them) kicking into the night" (57). Viewing 'The Great Gatsby' in this way ruins my interpretation of the book because now each of the individual female heroes appear less heroic, for how can one be heroic when they are a clone of society? While previously I sympathized with Daisy for the difficult emotional choices she has to make, I can no longer feel sorry for her while she is just another cog in the dreadful machine that is society. I now propose you, (the reader), these questions: Does Fitzgerald justify this 'common' view of women in the rest of the novel? What true differences do you notice between each of the female characters? Is the proper response for women's 'hysteria' (123) that men should deal with them?

Didn't Need a Lens to See That (Nate)

A single read through F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby will tip any reader off at the fact that Fitzgerald definitely had some feminist points to make. However, looking at it through a feminist lens, in my opinion, is simply redundant. The already prevalent points relating to oppression of women couldn't be more obvious .
"'Alright,' I said, 'I'm glad it's a girl. And I hope she'll be a fool--that's the best thing a girl can be in this word, a beautiful little fool.'" (Page 17)

This statement is showing that women in 1920s American Society cannot be another more than stupid, beautiful and powerless. Yes, this is feminism critique, but do you really need to be specifically looking for feminist statements to find it? No, not at all! Here's another example...

"'Your wife doesn't love you,' said Gatsby. 'She's never loved you. She loves me.'" (Page 130)
This statement by Gatsby is basically controlling Daisy's emotions without her say. You may think this is a bit less obvious, but I know for a fact one could come up with what I just said about Gatsby without knowing anything about feminist theory. My proof? Our own class, this was discussed during our seminar, and we had yet to learn anything about feminist lens.
So what can feminist lens give us in this book? Does it just reinforce what most people will discover on their first read, or is there something else there that I'm just not seeing?

Feminist Fitzgerald (Leslie)

In reading "Next They'll Throw Everything Overboard", I couldn't help but feel bored. Maybe it's just me, but I already viewed the women in "The Great Gatsby" the way they were portrayed through a patriarchal societal lens. But I don't think that makes me sexist; I don't think these women are unlikeable because they don't fit feminine "standards", I think these women are unlikeable because they don't have good personalities. For example, one might argue that the lens through which these women are viewed is sexist because the women aren't likeable because they aren't in touch with social standards: "Only two are married, and they don't keep their marital unhappiness a secret," (P.124), and "Daisy's life does not revolved exclusively around her maternal role. Finally, all three women violate patriarchal sexual taboos..." (P. 124). For me, the reason these women are unlikeable is because of their actions. "Daisy Buchanan is characterized as a spoiled brat and a remorseless killer." (P. 125). This isn't a sexist statement: she is spoiled because she doesn't think people beneath her are worthy, for example, she didn't want to marry Gatsby, whom she loved, because he wasn't wealthy enough. And Daisy did in fact kill Myrtle; therefore, that statement is just, and fact rather than a skewed, sexist statement. "Jordan is characterized as a liar and a cheat." (P. 125). Again, this statement isn't a skewed sexist statement; Jordan is a liar and a cheat. She cheated in a golf tournament, which led to the 'scandal', which eventually died down because of her "bribery or coercion". (P.125). And lastly is the characterization of Myrtle. "She's loud, obnoxious, and phony," (P.126). Despite her tragic death, Myrtle isn't one to be sympathized with; she takes advantage of her innocent, unassuming husband and cheats on him with a man that she uses for money and status. Thus, I believe that the female characters of "The Great Gatsby" are unlikeable not because they don't fit 'feminine standards', but because they are ruthless and conniving women. So if I don't think that this is a feminist reading, what would be a feminist view of "The Great Gatsby"? What do other people think that makes the female characters unlikeable?

Myrtle & Feminism (mae)

Through a feminist lens I learned that there are more “good girls” in the Great Gatsby, than there are “bad girls.” When I first read the Great Gatsby I didn’t think that Myrtle was a “bad girl,” I thought that tom had lured her though his wealth. Through the feminist lens Myrtle comes off as the one behind the scheme. She is only with tom because of his money, so that he can buy her stuff, and take her away from a class she doesn’t want to be apart of. “Myrtle had it coming.” (pg 127) This is one part of the feminist view that is drastic for me because when i had originally read Gatsby, I thought that Myrtle was the victim and not the one plotting. The question that is still in my mind is, if Myrtle wanted out so bad, what stopped her from trying to hook another wealthy man in addition to Tom?

Jordan: Masculine or Feminine (Sarah)

When reading The Great Gatsby, we see Jordan portrayed as masculine and having man-like qualities throughout the whole book. However, I would argue that although Jordan has masculine qualities associated with her, like making her own money, she is actually shown in a feminine light. In the beginning of the book, Fitzgerald writes "[with] Jordan’s slender golden arm resting in mine, we descended the steps and sauntered about the garden." No man in The Great Gatsby would be describe as slender or sauntering, therefore Jordan is being shown in a feminine light. Again in the novel, when "Jordan’s fingers, powdered white over their tan, rested for a moment in mine." This quotation shows how feminine Jordan actually is and how Fitzgerald may have wanted the reader to think she was masculine, but upon closer inspection she actually represents a feminine aspect of the book. Towards the end of the book, when she is going to play golf she is described as "her hair the color of an autumn leaf, her face the same brown tint as the fingerless glove on her knee." Ultimately, although major concepts of Jordan like her playing golf and making her own money may be associated with masculinity, she also represents a more feminine persona throughout the book. My question to pose to you is why would Fitzgerald do this, why would Jordan come off as masculine, but when you look closer her description and actions are associated with 'feminine' things?

Adam

Even at during our first reading of The Great Gatsby the oppression of women characters was obvious. The book takes place in the 1920's when women were first trying to break out of their set roles in a patriarchal society. Fitzgerald portrays any free movement or action by a woman in a negative light, yet when a man commits an equal or even identical offense it is let go as not a big deal. This can be seen especially easily with Myrtle's relationship with Tom. Her taking an agressive action and "getting" Tom is viewed in the book as irresponsible and immoral. Tom's relationship is equally immoral and irresponsible but he survives through the story. What's more, Myrtle is killed in a very symbolic and graphic way: "Michaelis and this man reached her first, but when they had torn open her shirtwaist, still damp with perspiration, they saw that her left breas was swinging loose like a flap, and there was no need to listen for the heart beneath." (pg 137) This obviously kills her while taking away her womanhood at the same time. Did she lose her womanhood during her death as a "consequence" for her actions? Or had she already lost her womanhood in the act of infidelity and the car crash was just it catching up with her?

Initially, when I read "The Great Gatsby," an observation I made about women in the novel was how there are no "good" or likable female characters. The main points that are discussed in this CTT essay are how these women are threats to patriarchy, and how each of them are punished on an individual level based on how badly they threatened patriarchal society. For instance, Myrtle is most extremely punished for her crimes against patriarchy. She is unfaithful to a faithful husband and disrespects his role as the head of the family. Daisy is also punished, but not to the extent a Myrtle is, which may have something to do with her class, or the fact that her husband is unfaithful, and therefore, it is less shocking for Daisy to seek another relationship. She also kills someone, but she is not the one to be most severely punished for that crime. The degree of punishment is related to the degree of threat to patriarchy, and no other offenses. Daisy having murdered someone does not affect her degree of punishment. Instead of being punished for murder, Daisy is punished for infidelity. Because Daisy does not get killed, like Myrtle, the only difference is the level of crime against patriarchy. Jordan's punishment is simply Nick's rejection. Her crimes against the male system are making her own money and having a relationship out of wedlock. Knowing these details about the book gives me an understanding of why there are no likable female characters. What I want to know is if this underling message was intentional social commentary, or simply the author's fundamental beliefs, whether he intended to relay them or not?

Daisy through Marxism (Sarah)

The Marxist interpretation of Gatsby, “You Are What You Own,” gives us a very clear perspective of Marxist theories and how the capitalist system of America plays a vital role in The Great Gatsby. However, one important aspect I feel Lois Tyson skipped over was Daisy. Daisy is seen as a commodity, something to be bought and sold. We can see the references of Daisy to money numerous times throughout the book, however, the most memorable is "Her voice is full of money," he said suddenly. That was it. I’d never understood before. It was full of money — that was the inexhaustible charm that rose and fell in it, the jingle of it, the cymbals’ song of it,”(120). At this point the reader realizes Daisy is a commodity, like money, that both Tom and Gatsby want. Seeing as Tom nor Gatsby represent old money, it is obvious they only want Daisy because she is true old money, however, what I still do not understand, and what I propose to you is why if Daisy represents true old money would she marry or love someone that was not old money (Tom or Gatsby)? Because through a Marxist perspective this would lower her social standing, which is the exact opposite of what all people are trying to achieve (in a capitalist system). Is this simply a flaw in the theory or does it say something deeper about Daisy and her intentions?